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Melanie Courtot: morning :)\
Alan Ruttenberg: Rob has mike but I don't hear anything\
satya sahoo: good morning all!\
Alan Ruttenberg: Still can't hear you\
Alan Ruttenberg: the sound of one hand clapping\
Alan Ruttenberg: are you using a mac, rob?\
Alan Ruttenberg: or a pc?\
Alan Ruttenberg: you are very quiet bjoern\
Bjoern Peters: now you are getting quiet alan\
Bjoern Peters: I thought Jonathan and I were in agreement\
Bjoern Peters: no\
Alan Ruttenberg: I am behind on the email\
Alan Ruttenberg: yes\
Bjoern Peters: yes\
Bjoern Peters: low\
Bjoern Peters: can you up the mike? \
Bjoern Peters: well, okay\
Bjoern Peters: great!\
satya sahoo: some links: Provenir ontology: http://wiki.knoesis.org/index.php/Provenir_Ontology\
satya sahoo: paper (at ODBASE 09) describing provenance management in parasite research: http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/download/ODBASE09_sahoo.pdf\
Bjoern Peters: 10 minutes total = stop at ~\
9:25 \
satya sahoo: link to presentation: http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/download/OntologyProvenanceManagement_ParasiteResearch.ppsx\
Bjoern Peters: can't hear melanie\
Melanie Courtot: Alan do you want to screen share the ppt?\
Bjoern Peters: I can share if I have link\
Alan Ruttenberg: sure\
Bjoern Peters: see it now\
Alan Ruttenberg to Melanie Courtot: after all, i don't even have to quit an active chat...\
Melanie Courtot to Alan Ruttenberg: "active" may be too much of a word\
satya sahoo: great thanks!\
Alan Ruttenberg to Melanie Courtot: "pf" ;-)\
Alan Ruttenberg to Melanie Courtot: much too much of a word, especially atm\
Melanie Courtot to Alan Ruttenberg: doesn't connect\
Alan Ruttenberg to Melanie Courtot: yahoo neither?\
Bjoern Peters: Did I understand right: 'provenence' allow people to track information about stuff in a formal manner, which you propose to do \
with an ontology\
satya sahoo: provenance is category of metadata - in our work we use ontology and RDF for modeling and querying\
 \
Robert Hoehndorf: I wonder how inferencing works: if I believe one fact, which implies another (for which no provenence has been assigned), do I automatically believe the other?\
Robert Hoehndorf: (I have no audio, so I may have missed a lot)\
Melanie Courtot: Satya: integrate parasite ontology into OBI, and can we align provenir/obi\
Melanie Courtot: BP: should be discussed with OBI mainly\
Melanie Courtot to Bjoern Peters: add to coord call on wednesday?\
Bjoern Peters to Melanie Courtot: sounds goo\
Melanie Courtot to Bjoern Peters: don't want to loose interaction with satya\
Melanie Courtot to Bjoern Peters: will you contact him? he had sent us email before release if you remember\
satya sahoo: I agree - I am attending IAO primarily to observe and understand how IAO influences provenance modeling\
Melanie Courtot: can barely hear you Oliver?\
Melanie Courtot: IDO: infectious disease ontology\
Alan Ruttenberg: iao-main\
Alan Ruttenberg: yes\
Alan Ruttenberg: umm. Melanie?\
Bjoern Peters: iao-dev-l.pprj\
Bjoern Peters: ? \
Alan Ruttenberg: yah, but I go hand edit it afterwards to fix p4 bugs\
Melanie Courtot: AI for AR and MC: fix up editing\
Melanie Courtot: P3 and P4\
Alan Ruttenberg: yes\
satya sahoo: yes\
Yongqun He: yes\
Melanie Courtot: I think numeral will get solved with numeric identifier\
Melanie Courtot: happy to address any of those 3 issues\
Melanie Courtot: current status: BP made processes suggestions\
Melanie Courtot: JAR pointed some unclarity when talking about concretization\
James Malone: has the stance on the term identifier been loosened?\
James Malone: i thought identifier was a banned class?\
James Malone: (i'm prob way out of date)\
Bjoern Peters: JM: you are\
Bjoern Peters: :)\
James Malone: lol in so many ways\
Melanie Courtot: I think a bit of documentation and adding explanations in the file would be very helpful indeed\
Melanie Courtot: make sure we all have the same basic understanding\
Bjoern Peters: so let's put that in\
Bjoern Peters: concretization of a information content entity = quality that is_specified_output of some ICE creation or copying process\
Melanie Courtot: quality or realizable entity?\
Bjoern Peters: examples: written text on piece of paper. magnetic state of a hard drive, neural state in the brain\
Bjoern Peters: Alan: who are you talking to? \
Bjoern Peters: I know\
Bjoern Peters: I just want to put it in\
James Malone: i also understand the idea\
Melanie Courtot: Ai for AR to write down examples on a wiki page - starting documentation to be expanded by all?\
satya sahoo: should this decision be influenced by the requirements of the applications? class vs instance\
Bjoern Peters: MC: no\
Bjoern Peters: we need it in the ontology\
James Malone: it is influenced by BFO\
Melanie Courtot: yes - I meant both\
James Malone: information also barely fits into realist view\
Bjoern Peters: MC: regarding realizable vs. quality, that is currently one of the inconsistencies. I think the realizable plan inheres_in quality which is ICE. \
Bjoern Peters: that is the kind of things we want to fix once AR stops talking\
Bjoern Peters: we = I\
Melanie Courtot: +1 BP\
James Malone: i am enjoying his performance :)\
Melanie Courtot: textual enity = some piece of some actual publication\
satya sahoo: :) - this was very useful for me\
James Malone: :)\
Melanie Courtot: every ICE is concretized in\
Alan Ruttenberg: yes\
James Malone: something physical yes\
James Malone: so more generally does a generically dep only ever become concretized in a real thing\
James Malone: this seems fundamental to me, and upper ontology related rather than IAo specific \
Melanie Courtot: I thought it was ICE -> realizable entity -> process\
James Malone: surely bfo has a stance on this\
James Malone: lol i see\
James Malone: "we are the law"\
Alan Ruttenberg: we are the effort\
James Malone: i see\
Alan Ruttenberg: someone has to work on figuring it out. We're trying.\
James Malone: indeed\
James Malone: can information exist about a colour?\
Alan Ruttenberg: yes, james\
James Malone: so the about can related to anything at all\
James Malone: it is more the concretization that is the issue\
Alan Ruttenberg: yes, which is why the range is not specified\
James Malone: k\
Alan Ruttenberg: no they can't\
Alan Ruttenberg: inheres_in relates depenedent continuant to independent continuant\
Bjoern Peters: true\
Melanie Courtot: ok - so we agree on the workflow\
Alan Ruttenberg: the "plan" part is supposed to be restricted to directive information content entities\
Alan Ruttenberg: no\
Melanie Courtot: there is an ICE (eg a plan specification) which someone has intent to execute - a plan in the head of somebody, which is then realized in a process\
Bjoern Peters: there must always be a quality\
Melanie Courtot: I think the use of the word quality is confusing here\
Melanie Courtot: what is the quality when thinking about executing a plan?\
Alan Ruttenberg: has physical basis\
Melanie Courtot: physical basis yes - but I wouldn't call that a quality\
Alan Ruttenberg: nonetheless there are still the realizables\
Melanie Courtot: I don't agree that all realizables will be qualities\
Alan Ruttenberg: you are defining concretization. You can say it inheres_in at least one thing\
Bjoern Peters: there is no inhereing for GDCs\
Bjoern Peters: no\
Alan Ruttenberg: we agree on this last point\
James Malone: i agree if true it should be in the file\
James Malone: and the restriction should be too - if it's true\
James Malone: RO should be doing this surely\
Alan Ruttenberg: agreed\
Alan Ruttenberg: relations might migrate to ro2\
Alan Ruttenberg: doesn't matter\
Alan Ruttenberg: we need to figure it out\
Melanie Courtot: +1 AR\
Melanie Courtot: do you have a pointer to that Alan?\
Melanie Courtot: (chris' file)\
Alan Ruttenberg: looking\
James Malone: guys i have to go, sorry i was late - we had last minute grant to push through\
Melanie Courtot: bye JM\
Alan Ruttenberg: http://code.google.com/p/bfo/source/browse/#svn/trunk/fol\
Bjoern Peters: plan = a realizabel that inheres in a bearer\
Bjoern Peters: that has_quality \
Bjoern Peters: will send email\
Alan Ruttenberg: from my point of view the requirement is that we can understand the directive information entities *and* the textual entities.\
Alan Ruttenberg: missed that mc\
Bjoern Peters: AR: I think that will be straightforward\
Alan Ruttenberg: good\
Melanie Courtot: ok - tks\
Melanie Courtot: I think that should be focus of next calls\
Alan Ruttenberg: ok. take care. talk next week}